Speaking of Research has spent spoken many times about the dangers of Camille Marino and her Negotiation is Over blog (here, here, here and here … oh and here) , but finally the end may be nigh. On Friday, July 12th 2012, a judge ordered that Marino must stand trial for stalking Wayne State University researcher, Donal O’Leary. Furthermore, Marino was sent to jail after breaking the conditions of her bond – namely by posting threatening materials regarding O’Leary.
Marino has shown time and time again that she has no qualms with pushing the legitimate limits of free speech. Her threats against individual researchers, as well as harassment and intimidation of students, shows an individual whose moral compass is substantially out of sync with the rest of society .
For more information I recommend reading the blog post by David Jentsch, founder of Pro-Test for Science. Here is an excerpt:
The pattern of criminal harassment and threats she directed against Michigan researchers was nearly identical to behavior she directed against me and other UCLA researchers since 2009 and that she has since repeated in her efforts to intimated Florida scientists. As I have previously stated, this pattern of behavior must not be tolerated in a civil society; it is neither Constitutionally protected, nor decent.
Regards
Tom
Speaking of Research 
There is an army behind her dear Ingrid! If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so. – Thomas Jefferson
you’re rignt, paul. i am on house arrest when i get back to florida tomorrow. but the judge gave me special provisions to make sure i am able to visit bergeron and continue my campaign at uf whenever the mood strikes me! :D
so can i count on you to show up next week???
so tell us what you admire most about dear old ray. is it the way he forcefeeds toxic dirt and poisons to the monkeys imprisoned in uf’s dungeons? or are you a fan of the manner in which he has his terrorized captives forceably extracted from their cages to be subdued and mutilated?
he’s such a wonderful human being. i know it must be a close call for you…
Looking forward to Camille rotting in a cell for a long, long time.
LOL Marino, you think we don’t know that you are under house arrest.
Raymond Bergeron is a far, far better person that either you or any of your catspaws will ever be, and your charassment of his family and neighbors just goes to prove this simple fact.
tom, you are cordially invited to celebrate my release at a demo at the home of uf vivisector raymond joseph bergeron next saturday, 8/25 at 2 pm: 6220 NW 56TH Lane, Gainesville, FL 32653-3117.
i think he’ll appreciate that! :D
and, btw, the judge didn’t order me to stand trial. get it right! i refused to accept a plea. i’ll plead guilty to stalking when you animal-murdering war criminals plead guilty to being mercenaries and terrorists!
*The anti-seizure medication my cousin takes that allows her to lead a normal life.
*Insulin pump implants for diabetics.
*Deep brain stimulation treatment for Parkinson’s disease.
*Cochlear implants for deaf people.
*The new HPV vaccine that children can get to prevent HPV.
*Pacemakers.
*The thyroid radiation treatment my cat got that prolonged her life by 5 years.
*Arthroscopic surgery, especially for gallbladder surgery that has cut down infections, recovery time, and overall cost of surgery.
*New “seed” implant technology for treating prostate cancer.
*Antiviral drugs that allow people with HIV to live, instead of die.
*Techniques used to repair heart valves in human fetuses- performed in utero so the fetus can continue growing in the mother.
*Effective medications to treat depression, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, attention deficit disorder, asthma, pain, allergies, glaucoma, tuberculosis, parasites, pneumonia, hypo- and hyperthyroidism, and many cancers.
*Vaccines for chickenpox, diphtheria, influenza, hepatitis A, B, and C, measles, whooping cough, polio, rotavirus, tetanus, and rabies.
*Pet vaccines for rabies, FIV, bordetella, Feline leukemia, FVR, calcivirus, panleukopenia, chlamdia, parvovirus, and heartworm treatments.
You people expose your incredible, pathetic ignorance by claiming that animal research is useless. You also expose your incredible, pathetic ignorance by portraying scientists and researchers as ruthless and cruel. Yes- there are some jerks out there, some people who probably shouldn’t be doing animal research. Guess what- there are people who shouldn’t be working at animal shelters, or working in daycare centers with children, or working in nursing homes with the elderly. You don’t judge thousands of people on the behavior of a few. Are we going to shut down all college basketball programs because of Jerry Sandusky? That is why there are laws, policies, guidelines, regulations, and voluntary accreditations to protect the animals. Do they always? No. Do most people in the lab animal science world treat the animals ethically and with care? Yes. You wouldn’t know- because you aren’t in the field. You only stand on the outside pointing fingers and showing 30 year old pictures of monkeys with cranial implants. And probably taking some ibuprofen when you have a headache, or going to the hospital when you get in a car crash, or having cancer treatment when you are diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer.
When you come up with a logical, coherent, intelligent argument, maybe someone will listen to you. Until then I can only hope that the laws in this great country will shut away terrorists and nut jobs like camille marino and her thugs.
Universities/research facilities won’t allow facts to interfere with this lucrative business. They are not interested in facts or any arguments that are put forward. Money is their God! Data is available which shows that that animal experimentation is consistently misleading.
Wasting time on David Jentsch threads and those of other sadistic sociopaths is pointless. We need to concentrate on our work – not attempting to debate the mentally impaired, power-hungry, greed driven frauds who delight in provoking comment.
You can’t arrest an idea!
Sure. Go right ahead. Use the small pox example… Great. Can’t you idiots come up with anything new? HELL no you can’t because the entire trillion dollar industry is a JOKE and a fraud. ANY research article I have read, (and in science I have read MANY) take a look at the conflict of interest page at the end. Count hundreds of pharmaceutical companies, to give one example, of who is paying these sadistic frauds’ money to twist anything around that they want in order to fake their so called scientific results.
You really don’t know what you are talking about. I know how to write grants. I know people who write grants. I know about how using live animals gets the most grant money. I know how using animals is EASY.
This type of science is a FRAUD, and all of us in the health industry WILL expose your lies.
@ Simon where was the the second most heavily regulated industry in the country, Aside from the Animal Welfare Act there is the PHS Policy on the Humane Treatment of Laboratory Animals, the Guide to the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals and guides for the use of agricultural animals. For species covered under the AWA, the USDA conducts annual unannounced inspections on facilities and goes through their records. For lab animals, AAALAC inspects most facilities every three years and goes through the entire program. when it came to this lab:
Tom,
Thanks for the article. I’m saddened that you have had to put up with the extreme fringe of the animal rights activists. I’ll be happy when animal testing is no longer needed, but not enough to give up essential drug testing. I suspect almost all of them don’t turn down medication, either. From what I can glean from the mostly-incoherent comments, the people who defend Marino seem to have little sense of balance. Apparently, they want animals to be treated better than humans.
louiseheller | July 17, 2012 at 6:14 pm | Reply
was in the uk press recently..google it
———————-
You brought it up, it’s for you to provide the citation. (Would the article also explain your use of the word ‘vivisection’?)
PCRM or, Physician’s Committe for Responsible Medicine will tell you anything you want to know about the scientific fraud of USING animals for research. The morality of it simply is not debatable. The science is from the dark ages. If people truly were humanitarians and altruistic, they would promote a 100% plant based diet, and do research to prove what Rachel Carson already knew: chemical council is KILLING humans, other species, and the planet.
Camille Marino is a hero. She never threatened the sadistic psychopath Donal O’Leary. She merely put all his information on her website, which was available to anyone looking for it online anyway.
All animal experimenters should be shamed at their jobs and at home. They themselves know there has been ABSOLUTELY no cures from their horror film style games they play with rats, cats, dogs, pigs and monkeys. The whole thing is summed up in two words : BIG business. For whom? For the breeders, the government, the researchers, the pharm companies, and more.
The fact that OUR tax money goes to support this lie is SICK. Trillion dollar industry it is. And a COMPLETE and utter fraud.
I am in science, in academia. I see the fraudulent grants written first hand, all so people can make money to pay their astronomical mortgages and for their jaguars and lexus cars. They should all be held accountable for this lie. They should all be in jail.
They don’t call it “experimentation” for NOTHING.
Ask the experimenters why they experiment on animals and the answer is: “Because animals are like us.” Ask the experimenters why it is morally okay to experiment on animals, and the answer is: ‘Because the animals are not like us.“ Animal experimentation rests on a logical contradiction.” THEY KNOW DARN WELL THAT THESE ANIMALS LIVE IN FEAR AND SUFFER JUST LIKE WE DO, AND THEY DO ALL THIS TORTURE ANYWAY, FOR ZERO OUTCOME WHATSOEVER. Anyone who defends this doesn’t know what the hell they are talking about, has never been inside some of these laboratories where people who get paid peanuts toss the animals around, throw them against things, take out all their petty frustrations on these innocent, docile, spirit broken animals, OR has NO concept of right or wrong. It’s that simple.
With regards to no cures, I haven’t seen small pox about for a while. To take another example, my grandfather had heart issues – he had an operation originally developed and refined in animals – now he has no heart issues. Sounds like progress to me.
“THEY KNOW DARN WELL THAT THESE ANIMALS LIVE IN FEAR AND SUFFER JUST LIKE WE DO, AND THEY DO ALL THIS TORTURE ANYWAY, FOR ZERO OUTCOME WHATSOEVER”
As impressive as the caps lock key is, this statement is:
(a) not true
(b) not a logical contradiction even if it were true
i spent a GOOD hour commenting so I am wondering why the hell it isn’t here?
It got spammed – I just fished it out – though your post should have taken around 5 mins to write,
Thank heavens. Besides online spammers it seems like the message is getting out that animal research is not the horrorshow it’s made out to be. And, by the by, a lot of animal research facilities do offer tours to select members of the public. I’ve led a few, only have had words of gratitude exchanged for the work we do and the care we give to the animals.
was in the uk press recently..google it
I sincerely hope all the “vivisection” warriors will never take any kind of medicine again.
louiseheller:
“..forget which big pharma company just got a huge fine for lying about the results of their vivisection..”
So, we’ll just have to take your word on it? Further, just because they lied, is not an argument against “vivisection”, it just means that the testers lied about the results, i.e. the effects of the drug. If this actually happened. I’m also interested to hear, what you mean with “vivisection” – the word alludes to cutting while alive, but there’s plenty of animal testing that doesn’t include it.
I suspect that Marino would object if the same approaches she’s using were used on her — threatening her loved ones, posting her address and talking at great length about how I’m *not* threatening her, I’m just talking in a fashion that some people might take as threats. Which means that her rhetoric about “war” is, to put it mildly, off. She wants to be able to fight her side by different standards than the other side; she wants her protections while stripping others of theirs.
That’s not war — that’s terrorism.
Thank you for posting this, and good luck in dealing with the barrage of extremists you’ve generated.
Aside from the fact that humans have no right to torture animals, vivisection is a scientific fraud anyway..forget which big pharma company just got a huge fine for lying about the results of their vivisection..no one believes it helps anyone.Its all a con and unjustifiable..people with vested interest will always stand up for their point of view even when they know its rubbish..As an ex councillor i just find the excuses i hear to kill animals vile and self serving..In the 80s vets were prescribing organo phosphates as flea control..making dogs ill and recently bob martins flea collars have been withdrawn due to killing with nerve gas..this stuff was animal tested..
its frankenstein stuff, not my idea of what science should be..
Penny Jill Dee, wow, an honest to Cthulhu, caps fail, conspiracy-crank, been a while since I ran across one of those.
Your screed is an incoherent mess, the above quote mining I did says all folks need to know about you and your connection to “THE TRUTH” (sic).
A word to the ‘animal rights’ whiners; You do realise that what Marino has done has a name right? Stochastic terrorism.
Details here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/01/10/934890/-Stochastic-Terrorism-160-Triggering-the-shooters
This is exactly what she and many others in the animal rights movement are doing.
Whether people support or oppose animal testing is irrelevant to Marino’s arrest. I’ve seen the vile things she’s supported and her talking about how amused she’d be by someone’s death. She may have tried to play some “I’m not touching” you game with her harassment and threats, but luckily our legal system isn’t going by five-year-old logic on this one.
Very nicely put, Peeta! “Five-year-old logic” is a good name for the excuses for violence put forward by animal right activists. It’s like: “I didn’t hit you, I just hi-fived your face”.
Wow! You’ve got a lot of vile and ignorant posts there.
I wonder why these idiots don’t offer themselves as subjects for testing. At least then they’d be doing SOME good.
Harassment, threats and intimidation are not protected forms of speech. It is only the preferred tool of those that have failed to convince the public via words, reason and legal activism. It appears that Marino and her followers will have to learn the lesson the hard way.
Clearly many of the posters here would benefit from some medications developed using animal models. I’m thinking Seroquel or Latuda.
TOM …………… GALLOP POLLS ARE BULL SHIT. GREED MACHINES HAVE BRAINWASHED YOUR YOUNG MIND. TOO MUCH TORTURE & PAIN AND IT’S NOT JUSTIFIED FOR BETTER HEALTH OF HUMANS. IT’S A SMOKE SCREEN. IF YOU ARE DOING THESE ACT ON DOGS, CATS, RABBITS, PRIMATES, PIGS, GOATS FOR SCIENCE AIMED FOR MORE DRUGS THEN WHY IS THERE MORE CANCER THAN EVER. MOST OF THE FINDING, IF NOT ALL, DO NOT APPLY THE HUMANS. IT’S THE MONEY GAME AND GOVERNMENT GRANTS AND YET HUMANS ARE NOT ANY HEALTHIER………….JUST ON MEGA DRUGS. THERE ARE OTHER MEANS FOR A MAJORITY OF THIS BULL SHIT SCIENCE. CAMILLE MAY HAVE POSTED THE TRUTH THAT ‘THEY’ DON’T WANT TO PUBLIC TO SEE. WAS IF LIES? STALKING WAS THE ONLY THING THEY COULD FIGURE TO CHARGE HER. THE INFO SHE POSTED IS ALL OVER THE WORLD NOW. MANY IN SCIENCE THESE ACTS OR GOING OVER THE LINE…………………NIO! THERE’S YOUR SIDE, O’LEARY’S SIDE AND THEN THERE IS THE WHOLE TRUTH. QUEENIE WAS TAKEN FAR OVER THE LINE OF ETHICS. YOU CAN TRY TO RATIONALIZE ALL YOU WANT KID BECAUSE YOU ARE ‘A’ TYPICAL, IN A BUBBLE. WHAT EVER MAKES YOU FEEL LESS GUILTY OF TORTURE AND BABY…………………THIS SHIT IS TORTURE. VIOLATIONS ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL ALL THE TIME. GREED MACHINES OF AMERICA. WEEP WHAT YOU SOW TOM. PSYCHOPATHS DON’T HAVE A CONSCIOUS OR FEEL EMPATHY…………THEY GET BRAINWASHED BY HITLERS OF SCIENCE. YOU’RE WHAT WE CALL AN ANIMAL NAZI. WEEP WHAT YOU SOW. THIS IS WHY THE WORLD IS FALLING APART, GREED MACHINES THAT DON’T KNOW WHEN TO STOP.
TRY A SCIENCE WITHOUT KILLING TOM. EVEN VETS SCHOOLS ARE NOW USEING SIMULATORS. TIMES ARE A CHANGING. ANIMAL NAZIS NEED TO HEAR OUR PRAYERS.
Penny, you do realise don’t you that commenting in all caps is at usually understood on the internet as a sign that the commenter is a bit nuts. Having said that, it does at least allow readers to get the gist and spare them from actually having to read your demented rant.
AR EXTREMISTS ARE BEING BRAINED WASHED BY ANARCHO-VEGANS AND GOOD-GAIA-THE-STONE-IS-ALIVE-TOO NUTS THAT DECRY THE END OF THE WORLD AS PROGRESS. THEY ARE ANTI-HUMAN, ANTI-TECHNOLOGY, ANTI-SOCIETY, AND CERTAINLY ANTI-DEMOCRATIC.
Queenie, once a family pet, was taken from a animal shelter and brought to the dungeons of WSU. When she arrived she was happy…loveable…tail always wagging. O’Leary and his heartless cronies operated on her…implanting devices in her heart and blood vessels. She was then forced to run on a treadmill. Within weeks she had turned into a fear biter and would deficate out of fear on the treadmill. One of the devices broke off in her body and she died. The vet records are available for ANYONE to see. I suggest you look at them. This dog, and others like her, suffered horribly at the hands of Donal O’Leary. THE WRONG PERSON IS IN JAIL. The true criminals are the ones who hide behind their “science”. Camille’s message will never die or be silenced. THATS A PROMISE.
If the testing labs had glass walls the reasearch would stop over night, such would be the public outcry. The people of this country would simpley not tolerate the cruelty they would have to witness.
There are now more and more cruelty free products out there with more people becomming aware of this fact. Animal testing for cosmetics should be outlawed, and we need a government with a backbone to make this happen.
In my view, it takes a cold black heart to do this type of work, and the people involved are vold of compassion, destined to answer to Karma, which will one day, be knocking on their door…
Cruelty free cosmetics only means that the ingredients have been tested using animal models previously and deemed safe by the FDA and therefore the company does not have to test them again. Either that or the company has contracted with an outside company to do the testing so they can say it wasn’t done by them. Currently the FDA requires all products designed for human use in the US to undergo testing using animal models before it is placed on the market. The Cruelty Free label is just a way for ARA’s to buy products and feel good about themselves without really knowing anything.
That is incorrect, cosmetics and personal care products do not have to undergo FDA premarket approval. If your point is that some of the ingredients may have in the past, and deemed safe….than we are in agreement here. A lot of these ingredients/products are deemed safe and now that we know this, why should we continue to test on these poor defenseless animals unnecessarily??? It’s purely for greed/profit! http://www.fda.gov/Cosmetics/GuidanceComplianceRegulatoryInformation/ucm074162.htm
As for medicine, etc., yes, the FDA approval is required. This is one of the places that AR community should battle with as well as the AALAS. There is no accountability in the labs where animal welfare is concerned, the IACUC are self-regulating at these institutions. It is all recorded it, but who is really looking at it and who would point out that something is going wrong, except for some whistleblower, which those are few far and in between. There is no justification with the amount of animals that suffer and are sacrificed in the name of science compared to the very few discoveries that made a significant difference in the lives of humans and animals. Those that have been, we already know, and we now know enough to stop these atrocities and use alternatives. However, we don’t because no one wants to rock the boat, so to speak, especially in this economy, where grant funding is limited. However, I believe that researchers will need to make a change since this is the case, animal care is one of the largest expenditures on a project.
Dawn, I stand corrected on the cosmetics. And as wrong as I was about cosmetics is how wrong you are about no accountability in the labs. The animal research industry is the second most heavily regulated industry in the country, Aside from the Animal Welfare Act there is the PHS Policy on the Humane Treatment of Laboratory Animals, the Guide to the Care and Use of Laboratory Animals and guides for the use of agricultural animals. For species covered under the AWA, the USDA conducts annual unannounced inspections on facilities and goes through their records. For lab animals, AAALAC inspects most facilities every three years and goes through the entire program. The animal care staff I have worked with at various facilities are very dedicated and care very much about the animals in their care. I can tell you they show more compasion than most animal rights activists I’ve met! Perhaps you should take a tour of a facility before making your comments. It’s clear you don’t know what one is really like
Simon, You sound like a first or second year postdoc at most, the truth will be revealed to you soon enough…or, you will just remain brainwashed. Not every lab is the same and if you really are in a lab, you know that. Every industry has a lot of people, and they are not all the same, that would be ridiculous to assume that. You can throw out all the “checks” in the system, but it fails quite often…..and, I don’t always believe it is intentional, but regardless, the animals are the ones that suffer. Like you said, every three years, that is simply not enough. Please don’t presume that I don’t know what happens in a lab or that people who are compassionate about animals aren’t in the industry.
Thanks for posting this Tom, the links you included really show why Marino should be in jail. I really do hope that Marino is found guilty and spends a few years in prison for her stalking campaign, it’s about time that this country cracked down on the use of harassment and intimidation as campaign tools by fringe groups. I visited her website a couple of years ago and for a few minutes believed that it was some sort of spoof site, the claims in it were that shrill and ridiculous, but quickly realised that no spoof site could be that filled with hate.
If she is convicted she may not “be over” for ever, but it would send a strong message to the other crazies that might wish to follow her example, and not just those in the animal rights movement. A friend of mine who works at a family planning clinic was the taget of similar “direct action” campaigning by anti-abortion crazies, and after seeing what she and her family went through (before the crazies eventually lost interest and moved on to other targets) I have no quams in denying protestors the ability to target people in this way. harassment should not fall under the protection of the1st amendment.
All posts involving insults or threats will be removed
SCIENTIFIC FRAUD – The Human VictimsAnimal experiments not only fail to contribute to the safety of medications, they also fail topredict the effects of drugs on people, with ‘ tragic consequences. Here are a few examples ofdrugs which have caused horrific damage to humans, despite being `safety tested’ onanimals.· Thalidomide: Sedative. Given to pregnant women suffering from morning sickness. Causedaround 10,000 birth defects worldwide. · Opren: Anti-arthritic drug. Withdrawn after more than 70 deaths and 3,500 other seriousside effects, including damage to the skin, stomach, liver, kidneys, eyes and circulation. · Chloramphenicol: Antibiotic. Caused fatal blood disorders in humans, but not in laboratoryanimals. · Teroptren: Anti-cancer drug. After a project using 18,000 mice this drug was used to treatacute childhood leukemia, but the children died more quickly than if they had not beentreated. · Clioquinol: Anti-diarrhoeal drug. Caused 30,000 cases of blindness in Japan alone andthousands of deaths worldwide. This drug caused a new disease SMON. · Osmosin: Anti-inflammatory drug. Withdrawn after 650 reported serious side effects and 20deaths. · Dosulepin: (Prothiaden) Boots anti-depressant drug. Side effects include; jaundice, anemia,short term memory loss, convulsions, slurred speech and postural hypotension. · Manoplax: Boots heart drug. Withdrawn in 1994 less than a year after its launch followingclinical trials, which suggested a link to increased rates of death and hospital admissions.Extensive animal studies including tests on cats and dogs failed to predict this problem inhuman patients. · Eraldin: Heart drug. Given to patients for 4 years before the horrific side effects wereidentified, including blindness, stomach troubles, joint pains and growths
· Ibuprofen: Boots anti-inflammatory drug & painkiller. Caused gastro intestinal disturbances,peptic ulceration, intestinal bleeding, liver abnormality, aseptic meningitis, depression,drowsiness, impaired renal function, insomnia and blurred vision. Does animal testing help human medicine? 33 facts to consider:1) Less than 2% of human illnesses (1.16%) are ever seen in animals. Over 98% never affectanimals. 2) According to the former scientific executive of Huntingdon Life Sciences, animal tests andhuman results agree “5%-25% of the time.”3) 95% of drugs passed by animal tests are immediately discarded as useless or dangerousto humans. 4) At least 50 drugs on the market cause cancer in lab animals. They are allowed because itis admitted the animal tests are not relevant. 5) Vivisectors Procter & Gamble used an artificial musk despite it failing the animal tests,causing tumours in mice. They said results were “of little relevance for humans.”6) When asked if they agreed that animal experiments can be misleading “because ofanatomical and physiological differences between animals and humans’, 88% of doctorsagreed. 7) Rats are 37% effective in identifying what causes cancer to humans. Flipping a coin wouldbe 50% effective, and therefore more accurate. 8) Rodents are the animals almost alwaysused in cancer research. They never get carcinomas, the human form of cancer, whichaffects membranes (e.g. lung cancer). Their sarcomas affect bone and connecting tissue: thetwo are completely different. 9) Up to 90% of animal test results are discarded as they’re inapplicable to man. 10) The results from animal experiments can be altered by factors such as diet and bedding.Bedding has been identified as giving cancer rates of over 90% and almost zero in the samestrain of mice at different locations. 11) Sex differences among lab animals can cause contradictory results. This does notcorrespond with humans. 12) 9% of anaesthetised animals intended to recover, die. 13) An estimated 83% of substances are metabolised by rats in a way different from humans. 14) Attempts to sue the manufacturers of the drug Surgam failed due the testimony of medicalexperts that: “data from animals could not be extrapolated safely to patients “.15) Lemon juice is a deadly poison, but arsenic, hemlock and botulin are safe according toanimal tests. 16) Genetically modified animals are not models for human illness. The mdx mouse issupposed to represent muscular dystrophy, but the muscles regenerate with no treatment. 17) According to a far-reaching study, 88% of stillbirths are caused by drugs which passedanimal tests. 18) 61 % of birth defects are caused by drugs passed safe in animal tests, according to thesame study. Defect rates are 200 times post war levels. 19) One in six patients in hospital are there because of treatment they have taken
The problem with copying text from the internet is it makes you look pretty silly when half the points you make are debunked on the same website.
Read: https://speakingofresearch.com/extremism-undone/bad-science/
Take the last 3 of your 19 “facts”. All three essentially claim that there have been significant side effects from a drug which has passed animal safety tests. The problem with this is that drugs are only released onto the market on the basis of clinical trials in humans. So these drugs have been tested safe on humans. What alternative do you have in mind which is a better model than another human?
You might ask how a drug that has been safety tested on humans and animals successfully can go to market and harm individuals. Usually, through the animal and human tests, the side effects are known but are seen as acceptable. So if you have a lifesaving drug and 0.1% of patients exhibit severe vomiting, they may well go to hospital, but it is seen as a better alternative than them dying without the treatment.
Sometimes, as with disasters like Vioxx, the proportion of patients affected is so small that the relatively small numbers of animals or humans used in trials does not pick it up. Vioxx negatively affected less than 1 in 400 people. It would have required around 5,000 animals to have picked up this in a statistically significant way. It was only after 80 million prescriptions that the dangers became apparent – this is, sadly, an unavoidable problem unless you wish to test millions more animals to pick up the very rare occurrence of a drug with a severe but rare side affect.
I recommend reading a longer answer on the issue of Vioxx here:
http://www.pro-test.org.uk/facts.php?lt=b
It’s pretty easy to find out that even the claims Alafair makes that are not debunked on the Speaking of Research website are gross misrepresentations of the truth. What Alafair is doing is usually referred to in debat as the “Gish-gallop”, after a well known creationist who realised that using rapid-fire claims he could gain an advantage over a scientist in debate because the scientist could not possibly respond to all his claims in the time available.
For example the antibiotic Chloramphenicol is still widely prescribed and has saved many hundreds of thousands of lives over the past 60 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloramphenicol
Another example, the mdx mouse is considered a very useful model by scientists developing new treatments for Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy, indeed it played a crucial role in research leading to the development of a nevel therapy which has performed well in early clinical trials https://speakingofresearch.com/2011/08/01/promising-clinical-trial-result-for-exon-skipping-in-duchenne-muscular-dystrophy/
I’m also calling bullshit on the claim that 88% of stillbirths and 61% of birth defects are caused by prescription drugs, as every reliable study or source of information I’ve read indicates that less that 10% of birth defects can be attributed to environmental causes – which includes factors such as pollution, alcohol and radiation as well as prescription and over-the-counter drugs.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/health_advice/facts/birthdefects.htm
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/birth-defects-causes-and-statistics-863
Of course many of the drugs involved have long been known from animal studies or clinical trials/surveillance (and frequently both) to cause birth defects, but for a variety of reasons – serious illness requiring immediate teatment, mother unaware she is pregnant, physician error etc. – embryos and foetuses are exposed to them. Animal testing can’t stop all adverse events, but it can help to prevent them.
nobody’s buying your crap. using animals for testing is wrong and if you want to test any more products. test them on yourself and your own family. make your kid drink the shampoo to see if its safe!
It seems you don’t really understand the process. Human volunteers are used before a new drug is introduced to the public but they come after the research involving animal models. It seems to me that since you’re groups are the ones advocating that animals not be used that we should be testing the products directly on you and your family instead of the animals. After all,. aren’t you the ones saying using the animals is wrong? I would think you would gladly potentially sacrifice your child to ensure a new drug is safe for children.
Simon, have you read any of O’Leary’s papers ? Some of that stuff is just depraved. I can’t imagine any of his work being a necessary intermediate step between inception of a drug and human trials.
http://65.54.113.26/PublicationList?srcType=4&desType=2&srcID=2520&desID=5580712
Experiments on animals in any regard are WRONG, your horrible monstrous people.
James. that’s fine. So long as you agree to forgo any and all advances that have or will be made using animal models. No MRI’s, CT scans, bone scans, chemotherapy drugs, diabetes medications, heart medications, treatments for glaucoma, any type of surgery, etc… So long as you agree that should you become sick you’ll either get better on your own or die, then go ahead and protest animal research. \
So long as you never take a pet to a veterinarian for the treatment of ticks, heart-worm, Feline leukemia, spaying or neutering, or infections then go ahead a protest animal research.
If you’re not willing to do ALL of these things, then perhaps you should rethink your stance.
There’s no reason to throw out all of our medical advances (ill gotten gains). That helps no one. On the other hand, we have progressed enough that we no longer need to progress… especially at the expense of victims who have no say in the matter.
Our bottleneck in medicine today is not at the forefront. It lies with the inability of millions of people to afford basic preventative and emergency care.
The race to cure odd diseases by pouring millions into animal research is, statistically, a sham… a zero sum game that gives animal experimenters a paycheck, and the unwashed masses false security.
A medical industrial complex which doesn’t give a damn about animals doesn’t give a damn about people either. They’re in the business of staying in business… and THAT’s why Camille Marino is such a threat to them.
Have you been vaccinated James? Your kids?
Can we experiment on James Merman instead?
Just a reminder: PCRM (Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine) obtained shelter and veterinary records through the Michigan Freedom of Information Act for Queenie, a Dalmatian mix who was used in one of the experiments conducted by Donal O’Leary, Ph.D. These records show that Queenie suffered immensely at the hands of O’Leary and his staff at Wayne State University in Detroit.
Queenie was found stray in early 2009 by residents of Gratiot County, Mich., who kept her for weeks before surrendering her to the Gratiot County Animal Shelter on June 15, 2009. After 10 days at the shelter, she was transferred to R&R Research, a Class B “random source” animal dealer.
Queenie was sold to Wayne State University, and veterinary staff noted that she was “curious, gentle, [and] friendly” when she arrived on Sept. 16, 2009. Lab personnel renamed her “Lafayette,” and she was assigned to the experiment “Integrative Cardiovascular Control During Exercise in Hypertension.” She began treadmill training on Sept. 23, when she was noted to be “distressed.
Queenie remained “spooky” during her presurgery treadmill training, even jumping off the treadmill when one of the experimenters entered the room. She had to be given a bath on Oct. 15 because she had “fecal material all down [her] left side.” Her training continued until Dec. 1, when she had a left thoracotomy—a major surgery in which her chest was opened to implant devices in her heart.
After surgery, Queenie had to wear a jacket, t-shirt, and cervical collar so she would not pull at her stitches or at the foreign objects now in her body. Her face and paws were swollen, she was “whining [and] vocalizing a bit,” and she vomited immediately after being placed in her cage. By Dec. 8, she was back on the treadmill.
As Queenie healed from her first surgery, she experienced irritation, scabbing, leaking fluids, and other ill effects. She seemed “agitated,” “intent on cleaning feces from [her] rear,” and was “whining for attention.” On Dec. 15, she underwent another procedure—this time, experimenters placed catheters in Queenie’s neck and behind her abdomen.
Queenie’s recovery was more difficult after the second experiment. The next morning, Queenie was found lying on her floor and “reluctant to get up out of [her] cage,” vocalizing when laboratory technicians tried to assist her out of the cage. Queenie did not want to move, and lab technicians placed a muzzle on her to stop her from making noise and attempting to nip.
Queenie’s incisions constantly seeped large amounts of fluids. After relentless licking, sores appeared on her paws and right hip. She was forced to wear an even larger Elizabethan collar to stop her from further aggravating the sores.
Queenie was forced to run on the treadmill again. Initially, the experimental devices were not turned on so she could serve as her own experimental control. When the devices were later turned on, constant problems with the devices’ electronic signals occurred, which prevented the experimenters from collecting data. Still, according to her veterinary records, Queenie was forced to run on the treadmill, and experimenters gathered data when they could, dodging bites from this once-friendly dog and frequently stopping the experiment to clean up feces.
By March 2010, Queenie was hypertensive. In April, she was noted by one lab technician to be “acting very timid – like she can’t get [up]…shakes while getting up (back legs)… won’t get up for me.” That same day, she underwent treadmill experiments again. Two days later, Queenie’s leg became caught in the treadmill and she stumbled. For the next two weeks, Queenie was seen “tip-toeing” and limping, but she was still forced to run.
Queenie was used until June 2010, when experimenters accidentally cracked one of the devices implanted in her while “packing up probes” after a treadmill training session. They attempted to fix the device, but it broke again, retracting into Queenie’s body. On June 29, 2010, more than one year after she arrived at the Gratiot County Animal Shelter and more than nine months after she arrived at O’Leary’s laboratory, Queenie was killed.
Queenie was just one of the hundreds of dogs used in O’Leary’s experiments at Wayne State University.
Wayne State University: 20 Years of Inhumane Dog Experiments
Forced treadmill exercise. Major surgeries. Constant pain and distress. Queenie, a friendly Dalmatian mix, could have gone to a loving home after arriving at the Gratiot County Animal Shelter, but she was sent to a Class B dealer and sold to suffer in a cruel Wayne State University experiment instead.
At Wayne State University, Donal O’Leary, Ph.D., has been performing inhumane heart experiments on dogs for more than 20 years. Dogs are trained to run on a treadmill, undergo two or more major surgeries during which they are implanted with medical devices, and are then forced to run on the treadmill again with experimentally induced heart failure or hypertension.
O’Leary has received millions of dollars in National Institutes of Health funding for this research that has not led to human heart health breakthroughs, but he is not the only one who has profited from these experiments. R&R Research, a Class B dealer that purchases dogs and cats from animal shelters and has been cited for illegally obtaining animals eight times since 2007, makes thousands of dollars selling dogs to O’Leary.
Tom’s afraid of getting beat by a girl.
lol.
Tom. Are you noticing a pattern developing in the responses here? Not, a single comment supporting your post. Welcome to the real world, outside of your cosy academic bubble, where you all congratulate each other on your wonderful selfless work for humanity. The fact is that the overwhelming majority have always, and will always be completely and utterly opposed to vivisection. Every single opinion poll ever conducted on the subject of animal experimentation has shown around 75-80% being in favour of it’s immediate end. Supporters of vivisection like to portray the opposition as being a small vociferous minority. But, the truth is that they are voicing popular public opinion. Vivisection WILL be abolished. It’s just a matter of when.
Every single poll is against animal research?!? Are you insane?
Every Gallup poll since 2001 has put the US public in favor of animal research (currently 59% say morally right, 34% say morally wrong) – https://speakingofresearch.com/2010/06/04/gallup-poll-puts-majority-behind-animal-research/
Over in the UK every MORI poll since 1999 has put the public in support of animal research (currently 90%) – http://www.ipsos-mori.com/Assets/Docs/SRI_HEALTH_BIS_NC3Rs_combined_animal_experimentation_2011_FINAL_report_PUBLIC_110411.pdf
These are respected polling companies that do proper sampled polls of the general public.
Quite the opposite, Paul, Americans vote by their actions every day: the immense majority are still eating meat, despite of the century-old efforts of your ilk to turn us all into vegetarians. Many more animals are used as food than for research, but animal right activists have pretty much given up on going after the meat / poultry / dairy / fishing industries. You guys know is hopeless. So you go after scientists instead. Why? Because they are “soft targets”. They will fight back with nice words and reasonable arguments, because that’s what they are trained to do. They are good people working to alleviate the suffering of humans and animals alike. But that is about to end, when you threaten people with violence, they will fight back, but only with the support of the law. That is what happened to Marino, and that is what will happen to you, if you are not careful.
For another perspective on this matter, please see:
http://therewildwest.wordpress.com/2012/07/09/support-camille-marino/
It was a fraudulent “HE” VS “SHE” case having very little to do with the animals involved. O’Leary’s animals are subjected to the trauma of confinement, shipping, preparation, manipulation, and death! And what are the results of his experimentations? Camille and what she stands for will NEVER be over..
Don’t get your hopes up too high that ‘Marino is over…’
I actually laughed out loud!
Her story of injustice and Donal O’Leary face have even reached South Africa.
Nothing is over! This is only the beginning.
The beginning of what? More threats?
Camille is just one of a whole lot of people that wants to end all testing on animals, She is not guilty of doing anything wrong, the ones testing on animals are the guilty ones, Stop this barbaric act against these animals and leave the ones trying to save them alone they are the ones doing the right thing, Bravo Camille you have a lot of supporters right beside you fighting the good fight,
we need more Camille’s in this world! go girl you are my hero
Personally, I don’t believe in threats of violence or violence in any way, so if Marino did that, she does not speak for many animal rights activists and vegans who oppose all violence to human and nonhuman animals. However, I believe what is done to animals in the name of science is morally unjust. We should move away from this form of sadism to computer testing or human volunteers. We have no right to torment, enslave and oppress sentient animals for human desires.
PeTA implicitly supports violence. Other organizations have statements against violence but remain silent when lunatics like Marino show up. Your comment provides some fresh air… but is isolated. Ask Wayne Pacelle to comment on nuts like Marino.
Whether or not Camille is in jail, NIO is now a global force and will not be silenced by the corruption of the Vivisection Industry, the Judiciary or anyone else. Defiance is a Virtue! This war is far from over.
Camille Marino is a heroine. You are all liars. She never threatened anyone, but merely exposed a sadistic, psychopath for making money by using sentient beings to pay his mortgage. They don’t call it animal EXPERIMENTATION for nothing. That is ALL it is; experimentation.
Get out of the dark ages. Not only can the morality of this HORRIFIC lying industry be disputed, SO can the science. The fraud IS exposed.
If you TRULY wished for humanity to be healthy, and were altruists, you would promote a plant based diet, and spend ALL your time proving just how horrific the chemical, pharmaceutical and big agriculture businesses were to the health of not only humans, but all other species and the planet as well.
http://pcrm.org/research/animaltestalt/
People for the rights of ALL beings to be LEFT ALONE are not ignorant. We know the fraudulent scientific issues, and are prepared for the likes of liars and profit makers who care not a fig for the health of humanity, but only writing a grant to get the MOST money to pay for their posh lifestyles. Animal research is one thing; BIG BUSINESS. It’s easy to use the innate desire of other species to breed, and use it to the advantage of so called scientists and researchers, whereas taking an ETHICAL stand, and doing the right thing takes guts, and an inherent goodness which, I am sad to say, NO one has who participates in this industry.
We will continue to hold you ALL accountable. You are all psychopaths, and a danger to all of society.
She is a lunatic. She exposed nobody — the research is described an available online. She simply lies and mischaracterizes the work to incite others to commit acts of violence… and, apparently, the judge is not amused.
END ANIMAL RESEARCH. it must not be tolerated in a civil society, it is uncivilised, barbaric and carried out by cruel, non humans without hearts. IT HAS TO STOP AND WILL STOP. The war continues for animals.
the people who are experimenting on animals have no moral compass and obviously,neither do you!
no,you have it all wrong,her moral compass is right on,it is society that is immoral and corrupted to the extreme.she is against cruelty to animals and you think there is something wrong with that? i applaud this brave and courageous woman.
I should hope that we are all against cruelty to animals. However, if you want to develop new veterinary medicines which will alleviate animal suffering then you will need to carry out well regulated animal research.
The operative word here is “well regulated”. Also, guys like O’Leary are not doing any favors for animals. He’s not even an M.D. or a D.V.M. He’s a hack, in multiple violations of regulations, as cited by the PCRM. Wayne State University needs to put this guy on leave until they sort out their animal program, and thoroughly investigate O’Leary. Instead, they choose to press charges against Marino… probably because she threatens to have their funding flow scrutinized. (Did you know that more people get “iced” for financial reasons than any other reason?) What WSU is doing goes way beyond threats. They’re initiating a lynching.
@JamesBurnette You do realise most people doing physiological research are not MDs or DVMs. They are Doctors through having studied their academic interests to PhD level. Your “not even an M.D. or D.V.M.” comment is ridiculous
Yes Tom, that’s a point that I really want to stress, and you agree with me. The guys doing the animal hacking are usually not MD’s or DVM’s. That is not acceptable; hardly what I would call well regulated or even concerned about animal welfare. There’s a cartoon called Futurama, where the company physician, Dr. Zoidberg, who appears to be part man part lobster, admits that his doctorate is in fine arts. Guys like O’Leary are frauds, and their biggest fear is being exposed. (I wouldn’t even want an orthopedist doing eye surgery on me, vice versa.) You’ve got to concede on this issue, Tom.
@James I would rather have a postdoc or professor who has studied their precise area of physiology for longer than an M.D. An M.D. is just someone who has studied courses that cover a broad range of physiology covering humans, rather than focusing on certain systems within humans or certain animals. To let an M.D. do the research would be irresponsible.
Well, Tom, the next time you need cardiothoracic surgery, I’ll recommend Donal O’Leary of Wayne State University for you, OK ? In fact, I’ll give you a ride to his lab. Now, we’re all happy.
She is neither brave nor courageous. She is a coward that incites to violence and murder. If she had the courage, she would commit the acts herself. She has no balls. Or does she?
Just like a fraud, speaking out since you know nothing of the truth.
Camille never posted anything,, she DID comply with her court orders. She was NOT running her site. Just wait till your constitutional rights are taken away,, then you can mouth off. Jailed without being able to prove she is innocent. Way to go,,, more proof that you know nothing about the real world. Your system is full of double standards and is broken,, the so called justice system is a joke. Fits right in with your morals doesn’t it? Gives me comfort knowing your type of sickness will never enter the gates of Heaven.
The judge demonstrated quite clearly that Marino violated the court order, I don’t see why you people have so much trouble recognizing this. Your refusal to acknowledge this reality is just one more sign of how deluded you are, indeed your whole world view is totally warped. The constitution was not framed with the intention of protecting stalking and harassment, so I really don’t see how Camille being jailed can violate her constitutional rights.
“…she DID comply with her court orders” Go tell the judge.
Well Tom, there’s a bizarre asymmetry when you state that Marino’s “pattern of criminal harassment and threats” must not be tolerated in a civil society.
May I ask how Miss Marino has actually threatened you ? Also, how many animals have you killed in your line of research ? Of course, you didn’t threaten them… you just tortured and killed them, right ? That should be tolerated in a civil society.
Bullies often go crying for help when they get bullied. You, Tom, carve up little animals who have no choice in the matter (which is a form of psychopathy unto itself). Now, you’re afraid of a woman with a bullhorn who posts your name, publications, address, phone number… all public information, by the way… for public consumption. She also chains herself to library doors. Sounds like you’re in real danger, Tom… of getting your funding pulled when the public reads what you do with their tax dollars (and to little critters).
This makes Sandusky look like Santa Claus. Tom ?
I don’t make threats against people or try to intimidate them. Camille does.
Furthermore, I don’t do animal research myself – which makes your comments pretty silly.
You might not do them yourself, but you are certainly defending animal experimentation. Don’t play innocent. It makes you seem disingenuous.
There will always be someone else to replace her. Our Army is large and compassionate. We will not be defeated!
Do you have any children Dorothy? Are they vaccinated? What about your pets? Are they vaccinated?